Of course had we lost them we would have been much lower down as a result. That's why it's just as important to beat bottom half opposition - that keeps them below you. Fantastic the way these leagues work really.

No poop Sherlock. Can point out where i say results against the lower placed teams are immaterial?

Not until you point out where I said you did.

I too was shocked when I saw some of Hull's stats on SL website:



- 4th most tries

- 4th most metres

- 3rd most carries

- 2nd most offloads

- 4th most tackle busts

- 3rd most clean breaks



Looking at this you wonder how we can be 8th in the league.

Because we lost games narrowly that we should have won, most of them against teams with even better stats. Plus we've pasted one or two of the teams below us this season which we've failed to do before.



This is why stats without context are misleading. Looking at those we should be a top 4 side but we fall just short far too often. That's down to the coach IMO.

Same old story, isn't it? Should have beaten teams we didn't and narrowly lost to others.

Take Manu out of our team and you can forget them last 3 stats.

Without Manu we'd be -

Joint 5th tries

6th metres

8th carries

4th in Offloads

5th tackle busts

5th clean breaks



Not that this changes much but I think it proves (not that it was ever in doubt) that Manu is very much an important player for us & will be missed when he retires/changes clubs.

Fantastic player - slightly fewer minutes for even more impact and he'd be devastating IMO.

One thing that can't be put in quantitive terms easily is the mentality of the players. I think I could get the team we have on paper to put 40, 50 points on Wakefield, Salford etc... The problem is getting the players' to believe in themselves, to put them in the right frame of mind to make the right decisions when it maters, to have the belief that they can go out there and beat Leeds, Wigan or St Helens. A good manager does that.

A real shame for him that with his quality he's spent his peak years in a duff side. Deserving of retiring with a couple of medals, IMO, definitely good enough.

Mrs B has already pointed some statistics that are far more relevant than offloads, metres, carries, etc.



The record in big games under Agar is not just poor it's a disgrace. Four wins in thirty games against Wigan, Warrington, Saints and Leeds. No play off win and no notable Cup win in three years.