At least you acknowledge the point this time, but you still refuse to deal with it.



I don't feel that his willingness (or not) to drop underperforming players is as big an issue as some do. But for you treat our poor-to-average general performance as if it's just an irrelevant opinion is a bit laughable.



I suspect you've been backed into a corner with this business. You don't actually know why you want to keep Brian Noble, and the business about whether he'll drop players or not is the easiest thing to keep defending him for, as that means you don't have to face up to the various other issues.



Like it or not, Brian Noble will not be leaving Wigan because he won't (or will) drop players. He'll be leaving Wigan because our very average form throughout most of the season is unattractive to fans, unattractive to sponsors, very frustrating to an ambitious chairman and at some point is likely to see us finish outside the play-off positions. We won't go on battling our way into contention from mid-table forever.

It was impossible for us to lose half of our games but if we had lost one more the ratio of losses to wins would be 13:14 which is as near to half as we could get.

And here's me thinking you and the rest were going to get behind the Team and avoid the criticism until the End of the season?

Why are you trying to argue about something ive not mentioned?



Do you have any input into the earlier discussion regarding Noble dropping players or not?

But we didnt lose one more and we didnt lose half of our games so your point is what?



What should we do next year if we only win say 16 and lose 11? Should we sack the new coach just because if we had lost another game his record would be the same as Nobles?

Don't take it personally Cruncher, the pro-Nobleites have also failed to respond to points I and other people have raised - e.g. fitness levels, preparation and how the Cup fits into Noble's alleged end of season strategy. Lots of pretty unpleasant things have been said about those of us who simply dare to question whether Noble is the right man to take the club to the next level....

The reason nobody has responded about preparation or fitness etc. etc. is quite simple.



You nor i have any idea what goes on regarding preparation or fitness your just guessing.

Not as I remember. I've been drawn into it a little since, but have only ever said that his unwillingness to drop players does not worry me much.



I'm trying to explain why I think Noble should be replaced - correct me if I'm wrong, but that is the main jist of this thread. And thus far, none of those who want to keep Noble seem willing or able to respond to any of my concerns - which doesn't convince me that they have a great argument (regardless of whether or not I agree with them about his unwillingness to drop players).

Absolute Rubbish!



Most of us (RHJ Apart) have given up trying to talk sense!



Again, your still making the Massive mistake of trying to make out that nayone who gives Noble an ounce of credit for anything he's done as being a "Noble Lover" or that we want him to get a new 10 year contract!



And if your implying that my comment about you "Half Truths!" was unpleasent then I'm afraid you misconstrued what I meant.

Half truths meant in that there are many statements from Anti Noble fans saying things such as "He won't drop Experienced players for Youngsters!" when Facts & logic tell you he has.

Opinion may be that he should have done it more etc but that is not what is being said by the Anti Noble Brigade.



I'll say it again I reckon 80%+ of the "Pro Noble" Brigade are happy for the club to Move on and employ a New man from next season.



What I and I feel many others are brassed off with is this continual drive to justify him not getting a new contract by the Anti Noble group who try to put a Negative spin on almost everything he has done to justify their stance.



My belief is that Brian Noble has done a Pretty Good job at Wigan and achieved 80% of what I hoped he would do. If he wins us the GF this year then maybe 90% of what I hoped he would.

Now that is my OPINION!



On the other hand a lot of the Anti Noble Brigade seem tot hink he has underachieved, again that is ok, that is their opinion.

But a lot of their justifications they roll out are again in fact opinions, not facts, although they are often put across as Facts.



But end of the day is 3 1/2 year contract is up end of this season, all I wanted and a lot of other Pro Noble people wanted was for him to be left to do that job to the best of his abilities until that contract runs out!



I cannot see at what point he has deserved the Sack over the last 2/3 years which quite a few would have done with a Knee Jerk reaction at certain points and whilst "Hypothetically" this could have improved Short term success on the field (Which seems to be the biggest justification for sacking him part way through a contract!) there is no proof to say it would and it could quite easily have made us worse?



On the other hand the stability that his tenure has brough has, for the 1st time in a long time, meant we have had a medium/long term strategy that we have been able to see through and IMO we are starting to see the benefits of at Every level throughout the club.



Would this have been possible if we had sacked him part way through last year? What happened if the next man didn't improve us, sack him after 12 months? And the Next and the Next!



Oh, we tried that before 99/00/01/02/03/04/05 = Monie/Goodway/Frank/Raper/Gregory but we have to skip this one for obvious reasons/ Millward and where did that get us?



Not very Far IMO!



lets

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And think about this season!



[size=200=redCOME ON WIGAN!!!!!!!!!!!![/size

"guessing"? Yes, I'm just guessing that Feka is overweight. It could be an optical illusion! You're right, I don't know what goes on in training but the results (or lack of them) are plain for all to see!!



BTW, I notice you've side stepped the cup question!

Cruncher



I'm not one for doing polls etc on here (Lists are more my thing!

) but I would bet if there was one and there were the :- options



1/ Noble was terrible did nothing right should have been sacked ages ago he should be strung up for holding back Wigan and has doen nothing positive



2/ Noble was terrible but let him see out his contract and then move on



3/ Noble has done a good job, but its time to move on irrespetive of whether we win GF or not



4/ Noble has been brill and should get a new contract irrespective of whether we win GF or not



NUMBER 3 would win hands down when it comes to those that are labelled as "Pro Noble"!

Whereas the Anti Noble group seem to want to do the 1st option and use a lot of Opinion dressed up as fact to try and justify it.

I just can't see why certain Anti Noble fans (And I don't label you in this as I think you are pretty fair when it comes to Noble) can't or dont want to give Noble just a Hint of credit for anything and want to make a big Shock "Sack Him" statement as we havent won anything.

What is his weight?

What was his weight before he came to the club?

What has he been told by the club/conditioners to do? Maybe they want him that way?

You go on about Inga when he came to Wigan Blah Blah Blah, I bet EVERY member of the current team would hold their own or improve on what those guys were doing early to Mid 90's in comparison.



As for the cup question, I suppose 2 x semi finals in 3 years and losing to the SL champions at the qtr final stage away from home in his other year is Nowhere near as good as the 2 x years previous!



Losing 75-0 to St Helens and that Memorable Performace in losing 16-4 at Salford the year after! I suppose you would be happy to go back to those days?



I suppose we were "Super Fit" then? When week in week out we had almost a full team sat in the treatment room with injuries/pulls etc?



I would day we are a far Fitter team now than we were then!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Short Memories some people have, I don't !



I remember 2005 & 2006 and it's like a Big Millstone round my neck that I just can't forget!

Funnily enough a Win on Friday when we go into a Derby in many peoples eyes as favourites for the 1st time in 5/6 years does actually start to make me feel a touch better about life.



Brian Noble has a Big part to play in that and I for one "THANK" him for it!



I still think we should move on but I am at least going to do so by showing some gratitude to an Honourable bloke who IMO has done his best at all times for Wigan.

I don't think many of those arguing that its time to move on think Noble has done a bad job, its just that he isn't the man to take us to the next level.



When reasons for that have been given on this thread there have been some pretty unpleasant personalised attacks on people who dare to criticise BN whether its comments like "idiot" "absolute dross" "stubborn and thick" "utter nonsense" "at least speak the truth rather than making fantasys up" or "half-truths" or allegations that Noble doubters secretly want us to lose....



That's not an opinion by the way, the facts are there in the thread for all to see!



As for the past, no one is arguing that previous coaches weren't given sufficient time. BN has been given plenty of time and it doesn't look like he can take the club any further and there are obvious areas of deficiency within the set-up, team selection etc which could be improved on by a new coaching and backroom team. Its time to bring in someone new.