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| There was some debate over on the Hull board and the question of contested scrums was raised, here's my response:
Quote cod'ead="cod'ead"
Before we totally abandoned contested scrums, there was a clamp-down that resulted in some players receiving spells in the sin-bin. Just as the referees had got things under control, the RFL bowed down to club chairmen and told us to back off, so we were back to the mess we had before.
During the clamp-down, I used to go into both teams' dressing rooms and deliver the same instructions:
The defending team (non-feeding), takes the mark - move off it and I'll penalise you
Attacking team forms up one metre away - move before I tell you and I'll penalise you
Defending scrum half, stay behind your second row until the ball is clear - otherwise I'll penalise you
Attacking scrum half, put the ball in the middle of the tunnel when the two front rows come together and then immediately retire behind your 2nd row, - delay, feed or not retire and I will penalise you.
Open side props, keep a clear tunnel - if you lift your leg, I will penalise you
Hookers, bind properly and don't strike before the ball is in the tunnel - otherwise I will penalise you
Loose forwards, bind with the second row and don't detach until the ball has cleared the 2nd row - otherwise I'll penalise you
Backs, remain 5 metres back until I say the ball has cleared - otherwise I'll penalise you.
It's that simple.'"
That was then countered by "We'll have a penalty-fest and the game will never get going". My response to that was:
Quote cod'ead="cod'ead"That was the initial argument and also what eventually won the day.
It may surprise some but there are relatively few stupid players and even fewer stupid coaches: they are both far outnumbered by stupid speccies.
All it took was about four weeks of penalties and sin-binnings before the mesage got through. We then had properly-formed scrums, invariably with clean ball, sometimes even against the head & feed.We also fed to the open side, simply because it gave another dimension. The decision for short-side feeds was given as helping the officials, it did nothing to assist.
Scrums could resume to being competed and cleaned up within a couple of months. But the problem is: the major area of Australia's weakness has always been the scrum. A good hooker (Tommy Harris) and a good scrummaging open side (Mick Scott, Jim Mills etc) would always win ball, couple that with some of the loose men we used to produce, there's no wonder they wanted to move away from competitive scrums, they simply couldn't compete in that area of the game.'" |
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| Quote Catalancs="Catalancs"eusa_eh.gif
This doesn´t go far enough. Make the scrums a contest and then move them back ten.
I think the scrums need to be made competitive or got rid of altogether. At times I think it would be quicker to just hand the ball over and take a tap.'"
maybe we can have continual re-setting of scrums and the ref shouting out engage, |
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| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Quote Roy Haggerty="Roy Haggerty"Let's create some space for the backs. Just handing over the ball would render the whole experience very one-dimensional. With three-quarters becoming essentially wide forwards in the last 5 years (wingers as first-hit-up forwards, centres and second-rows interchangeable tackling machines), we need to create some openings for the exciting crowd-pleasing backs who we no longer have. For all his other faults, I want to see players like Kevin Penny in a team, so that in space the adrenalin can flow like it used to when Sullivan or Offiah got the ball. There seems to be no place for the likes of Penny in the modern game, as wingers are there to be pile-drivers - often bigger than some forwards.
Separating the lines by nearly 30 metres at a scrum, with the pack taken out of the picture, would give plenty of space for the return of speed, evasion and backs moves which didn't require simply backing up line-breaks due to missed tackles.
Can't come fast enough if it happens, in my opinion.'"
Absolutely agree. If things aren't changed it won't be long before every player is over 6ft and over 16st. |
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| Quote cod'ead="cod'ead"
That was then countered by "We'll have a penalty-fest and the game will never get going". My response to that was:
'"
We get them everytime the refs decide to enforce the rules at the beginning of a season, unfortunately the refs give in before the players and the season continues with some things overlooked and some penalised  |
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The intention of moving the defensive line back 10 metres from the play the ball was to give teams more space to attack but safety first one up rugby became the norm and it will be the same again if this is introduced. I agree that if scrums were policed properly and couldn't break up until the ball has cleared then there would be enough opportunity for the team in possession to attack.
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| International Chairman | 37704 | No
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| Quote dally messenger="dally messenger"maybe we can have continual re-setting of scrums and the ref shouting out engage,'"
Please refer to my post above yours, re: the real reason the Aussies wanted to be shut of competitive scrums. |
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| Quote Red Red Robin="Red Red Robin"The intention of moving the defensive line back 10 metres from the play the ball was to give teams more space to attack but safety first one up rugby became the norm and it will be the same again if this is introduced. I agree that if scrums were policed properly and couldn't break up until the ball has cleared then there would be enough opportunity for the team in possession to attack.'" agreed,keep the 2rowers & loose forwards in the scrum until the S.Off as off loaded the ball or has attacked the line. |
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| International Chairman | 956 | No
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| If Sheens wants more space to attack from a scrum then why not simply have his backline stand deeper?
And I thought that he was some sort of super coach...?  |
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| Quote cod'ead="cod'ead"Please refer to my post above yours, re: the real reason the Aussies wanted to be shut of competitive scrums.'"
do you know a union fan in australia was watching a S14 game. the game was having a scrum being re-set time and again. in the time it took to finish the scrum he switched between channels and saw a RL game complete a set of 6
the reason why RL has prospered is it has taken the s**t bits of union and eliminated them. |
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| International Chairman | 37704 | No
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| May 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Quote dally messenger="dally messenger"do you know a union fan in australia was watching a S14 game. the game was having a scrum being re-set time and again. in the time it took to finish the scrum he switched between channels and saw a RL game complete a set of 6
the reason why RL has prospered is it has taken the s**t bits of union and eliminated them.'"
Or, that Aussies are simply crap at scrummaging, whether in RL or RU |
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| Player Coach | 12958 | No
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| Quote cod'ead="cod'ead"Or, that Aussies are simply crap at scrummaging, whether in RL or RU'"
only in response to the league bit, i dont care about union. |
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| International Chairman | 9721 | No
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| Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
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